30.10.07

She Gave Me of the Tree


When Islam Freed Woman from the First Sin

A verse that I perceive to be coral in human social development, it was related to the first sin of Adam, and how he played Goofy when asked by God, claiming "she" to be the reason. Saying; "The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate" Genesis 3:12

It was then when the man took the economic leadership on this planet, when he first started to claim the woman as the source of the first sin, and all the sins that came after. Judaism and Christian scriptures were only a part of a long story, always depicting women as the source of sins and evils, even in Islamic scriptures, Quran had never related the old sin of mankind to Eve as the Old Testament did. Nevertheless, some Hadieths that is a suspect of forgery related the sins and evils to women as well, and depicted them as the maidens of Satan.
Recently, reading comments on Kolo-Mashy blog of my friends Emy and Coca, specifically on a post about Fornication and the society different perceptions and attitudes toward men and women who fall into it. I read comments of the blogger Hossam Sunray, where he proposed some justifications for this discriminative social value. As I had something to say about almost every justification he wrote, I though to write this post answering his claims. He might forgive me if the translations of his claims became shorted by any mean. Hereunder the claims and its answers from my side.


First Claim:
"Since the ever, the nature granted this to man, as always the man held the right of polygamy while women used to have only one man who represents the security and shelter to his woman"
I am afraid here the basic foundation of the claim is inaccurate. It was in the 19th century when Bachofen, a brilliant archaeologist brought up the suggestion of matriarchal communities civilization witnessed once, needless to mention he was highly oppressed specially from the Catholic Church. By that time, they managed to limit his argument to academic cycles. Yet, it was re-vitalized over years. Today, the majority of archaeologists believe we had once matriarchal societies where women were equal or higher ranked to men. In some of these societies women were economically dominant, and a sort of polygamy (androgamy) existed, together with male prostitution. So, polygamy is a sign of economic dominance and does not belong to gender

Second Claim:
"Sex is more Important to man, as women are not moved by desire as men do"
I will agree if the blogger meant men to be more public in their sexual tendency than women. But the reason is not sex is less important to women. Medicine and Sexology proved women to be as sexually interested as men. First legend stated men are more sexually aroused than women. Then a second legend said that women are more aroused like 10 times more than their peer men. Finally, Sexology states today that both are equal, all variations are individual variations. So, women do crave men as much as men crave them, then why it looks different? because females usually are less talkative about it. Even among their closed feminine circuits, they do not talk about their desires as much as men do. That is all.


Third Claim:
"A woman can seduce a man if he is not welling to make love to her. On the contrary a man can only force a woman if she is not welling, he can never seduce her"
Seductive ability is a matter of personal variation. Some men can seduce women and vice versa, others can not. By the end of the day if the man want to control he can, same applies to woman. The man who need to force a woman to make love while they are in privacy is whether blocked by negative emotions from her side or a very bad seducer in general.


Fourth Claim:
"A girl will tolerate well knowing her father is a playboy. Yet, she will undergoes moral breakdown knowing her mother is playing around"
It depends on the society dear. Some other places in the world will be equally destructive to know one of the parents is faithless to the other. Here due to traditions male fornication is taken lightly even from his own sons and daughters.


The Misleading Logic:
I think the drift of logic here, was the blogger's perception of the symptoms as causes. i.e. when a man has a fever and shivering due to it, we can not say that he shivved because he has fever and that is it. We should follow the cause of the fever as it is a symptom not a causative factor.

If I will explain the blogger's justifications in my own language as I see it as symptoms, I shall say;
  • Polygamy is highly practiced in the east as the society does not disregard it. So it became easier to imagine and to practise.
  • Males enjoys more sexual freedom than females, so it appears from outside as if females are not interested in sex
  • Family in case of female fornication suffers more as it is much worse perceived compared to mail fornication.

All what he says actually is signs of the disease not its causative agents. What do you think?

20 comments:

EmY said...

i aree with every word u said
thanks for ur post its really great
i believe what u said is fair enough
we just try to find a way to make our faults accepted
thank u Dr Eyad
i really enjoyed every word u wrote as i always do

Fantasia said...

really, i envy you on the ablity to tolerate such comments and to comment on them as well in such a detailed way. it is such a wonderful idea.. taking each claim and refuting it.
the myths about women are so many and most of them are taken to be facts. the problem is that some religious rules were based on these myths, which were the common belief at the time. now, those who say that religious verses and rules are eternal, won't believe anything else, even if it was 100% scientifically proven. they will tell you that scientists are wrong. even if a woman tells them that all this is bogus, they will tell her that she is a special case, but all other women fit in the same description mentioned. how can we get all women to talk? even if they talked, those people won't believe anything else. cause they want these myths to be true.
some women also find the idea that they don't have a weaker sexual drive something good for men to believe. they think it is a useful lie. and some women take it to be true in order to convince themselves that there is nothing wrong with their sexual lives. you know that only a fraction of women in the arab world know about orgasm. married women hate sex and consider their duties in this respect to be a burden, that they only perform it to please God. in this case if their husbands knew that they desire physical intimacy as much as they do, those women will be miserable. so they stick to the common belief, and some of them (due to absence of sexual desire) believe it to be true.
women in our societies are a special kind of victims. they would rather be abused than having to face society with their true feelings. just like victims of rape, their behavior is against logic, yet to the victims it is the only right thing to do, even if it putting more women at risk and jeopardizing the safety of society as a whole.
i wrote so much. i wanted to comment on several of your posts, but because there is so much to say i keep postponing my comments till i find you've posted a new one. i will try to be brief next time.

Dr. Eyad Harfoush said...

Dear Emy,
All thanks to you and to your smart post, that brought Mr. Hossam's comments, so I found it deserving a reply. So it is you in the begining. I always wait for your comments on my posts as much as I wait for your posts
Regards

Dr. Eyad Harfoush said...

Dear Fantasia,
Please keep commenting as long and detailed as you can. It is not a complement it is simply true, Mind sharing with educated youth is the thing that gives me hope in our society. When it comes to educated young ladies it gives me even more hope as women are the mankind developers. Knowing they owe the major contact to the kid during the 1st 3 years of life that makes the foundation for his entire life.

But we are all miserables in this society dear. I agree to what you said about endurance of women, but look on the man side, is he living a complete life, when his lady sleeps with him to please GOD?!!!! maybe he thinks he is fine simply because he had never known "it takes two to tango". He did not realize the difference so he just do not give a damn.

But religion does not claim any of these false things? Read the Woman Re-liberation articles in my blog very early, you will it is our minds that spoll-over religion, then others believe as you said because they want to.
Regards

The Alien said...

عزيزي د/إياد

كل اللي هو بيقوله كلام عن الوضع الحالي عندنا
يعني بيوصف اللي هو شايفه وبيسمعه
وهو بيفترض إن دا الطبيعي والحقيقي
وهي دي المشكلة

بالنسبة لموضوع اﻷديان وتحاملها علي المرأة
أنا مش عارف الوضع ف الإسلام
بس أنا عارف إن قصة أدم وحوا اللي ف العهد القديم
بتحمل حوا كل المسؤلية ف خروجهم من الجنة
ولإننا ف مجتمع ذكوري ف الإعتقاد دا مناسب

تحياتي

Dr. Eyad Harfoush said...

عزيزي آلين
مفتقدينك من زمان ، كمان مافيش بوستات جديدة على مدونتك من مدة طويلة قوي

شكرا لتعليقك ، و أنا أتفق معك ، فأحيانا يمتلك الوضع القائم علينا حواسنا فنعتقد أن هذا الوضع هو طبائع الامور أو طبيعة الاشياء، و هي ليست كذلك

بالنسبة للعهد القديم فأنا معك تماما ، و أنا عموما لا أطمئن لمعطيات العهد القديم من عدة نواحي
1- البعد التاريخي فيه شديد القصور ، فعمر البشرية وفقا للعهد القديم من آدم لليوم لن يزيد عن سبعة آلاف سنة و نحن نعرف أن هذا غير صحيح
2- تصوير الله كاله قبلي خاص ببني اشرائيل يشجعهم على العدوان على غيرهم غير مقبول ، فهو سبحانه يرزق في أرضه الجميع و يتيح الحياة للجميع

3- تصور المرأة بشكل دوني و كباب للخطايا هو تصور مرتبط ببيئة رعوية تخص بني اسرائيل ، تكون فيها الحياة معنمدة على عضلات الرجل للحصول على الماء و المرعى

عموما أنا دائما ما قلت أن المسيحية في ضم العهدين خسرت كثيرا من الاتباع نتيجة للمحتوى الغير مقبول للعهد القديم ، و اما اليهودية فاكتسبت تعاطفا مع منظورها اللا-أخلاقي للعالم و الذي لا نعتقد أن مصدره الله و لكن حاخامات اليهود ، و أنا عن نفسي أعتقد بأن التدخل البشري المغرض في ترجمة العهد القديم و شرحه كان كبيرا ، و اللغة العبرية تسمح بذلك لمطاطية ألفاظها
تحياتي و تقديري

someone in life said...

د. اياد مع احترامي لعلم حضرتك الوفير لكن اسمحلي الغه العبريه لغه غير مطاطيه بالمره خاصه اللغه العبريه القديمه و هي المستخدمه في العهد القديم فقط لانها كانت لغه ميته حتي الثوره البلشفيه في روسيا و ظهور حاييم هرتزوج و كانت تقتصر علي الصلاه فقط و قراءة العهد القديم و تم احيائها بعد ذلك فهي الان تحوي كلمات من جميع اللغات نظرا لشتات اليهودي اما التلرجمه فهي حديثه و لكن لو قرات المتن العبري القديم بدون ترجمه فهو يحتوي علي اخطاء و اهوال نظرا لتدخل حاخامات اليهود في المتن الاصلي و ليس في الترجمه اما المصيبه الاكبر فهي التلمود و هو شرح و تفسير لايات التوراه و به حواشي كثيره بها افكار صهيونيه اصيله ..عفوا لو اطلت و لكنه التخصص ظهر علي السطح

Dr. Eyad Harfoush said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dr. Eyad Harfoush said...

عزيزتي someone in life
ما هي درجة العلاقة بين العبرية القديمة و العربية بلهجة شمال الجزيرة العربية في رأيك؟

العبرية القديمة و العربية بهما خاصية مشتركة و هي الاستخدام المفرط للمجاز ، حتى يصبح اللفظ المجازي مستخدما كتعبير حقيقي ، و عند الترجمة يحتمل مثل هذا اللفظ معاني متعددة

تحياتي و تقديري

Dr. Eyad Harfoush said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
someone in life said...

سيدي اعذرني لا علاقه بين العربيه ة العبريه الا في الاصل السامي فقط اما التعبيرات المجازيه و الاعراب فهما في اللغه العربيه فقط و هما من الاعجاز في لغه الضاد انت لا تستطيع ان تعرب كلمه واحده في اللعه العبريه و لكن يتم تحليل الكلمه حتي تصل الي الجذر سواء كان فعل او اسم و العهد القديم ليس به اي صور جماليه لغويه كما يوجد في الشعر العربي او في القرأن لذلك العهد القديم ليس به اشعار تقريبا و انا هي اناشيد او ترانيم تقرا علي قافيه واحده اما ما تقرأه في النصر العربي المترجم و هو اصلا مترجم عن النسخه اليونانيه و ليس مباشره من التوراه فقد استخدم فيه بعض من ابداع اللغه العربيه و ممكن اي احد من اداب لغه عبريه يقرأ لحضرتك النص الاصلي و ستجد احتلاف كبي بينه و بين النص العربي

Amre El-Abyad said...

Dear Eyad,

Metaphors are a common feature of all semitic languages.

The superiority of the Arabs and their inherent genius have both, made the Arab world the spiritual capital of the world. Jesus was a syrian man whose moher tongue was Aramaic, Mohmed was Arabic, Jewish legilslation and traditons are a merger of Pharoanic and somero-Babylonian knowledge.

Alas, the spirtual nature of our region has deemed it impossible to rewrite our history in a totally secular way. Thereby, the western Judeo-christian narratives have become the domiant ones in the Arab world.

P.S i couldnt elaborate further so as not get myself in trouble, but Iam sure you got what I mean

Dr. Eyad Harfoush said...

Dear Someone in Life,
even if it is your specialty, revise your old books, metaphors do exist in Hebrew

Dr. Eyad Harfoush said...

Dear Amre Al-Abyad,
Thank you for the valuable information. And surely I understand your reasons not to elaborate more about it, I surely do. I share with you the ideation of Egyptian effect on Israeli scriptures and even Iconography.

Thank you and best regards

Dr. Eyad Harfoush said...

Further Readings about Metaphores problem in Hebrew:

1- RECOGNISING HEBREW METAPHORS: CONCEPTUAL METAPHOR THEORY AND BIBLE TRANSLATION - E A Hermanson

2- Biblical Hebrew Conceptual Metaphor Categories in the Book of Amos- UBS Triennial Translators' Workshop, Mérida, Mexico, May 1997

3- Divine Metaphors in Selected Hebrew Psalms of Lamentation

shams said...

Dr. Eyad Harfoush
i relly enjoyed reading your words , i find you wrote in the most important relation between us , that is relation between men and women i find we need more days to brief that words which is writen in your post in few lines

Dr. Eyad Harfoush said...

Dear Shams,

Thanks a million for your comments and visit. And yes, healthy man+ healthy woman = healthy society. Dream if we can reach this status even by 60% one day. I do not dream of paradise, I dream to find 5 persons like you, coca and emy in each 10 persons I meet. Then we are a developped society. Is that much?

Lotta said...

Good for people to know.

Dr. Eyad Harfoush said...

Dear Lotta,
Truth is always obvious, only when we have the courage to see it.
Thank you for your comment
Regards

Anonymous said...

بصراحه مابقتنعش بكل ده بس احيانا بعضه صحيح ( كذب المنجمون ولو صدقوا )